"Invest in ! It's going to be big! Do it now!" "But that doesn't make any sense at all?" "Sure it does! Money is your best investment ever! Are you blind? Money is exploding right now!" "Doesn't. Make. Sense" (My brain is hardwired to replace with money. Try it ;)

It's still the fundamental dilemma. How can bitcoin retain value if it is only a store of value, based on PoW? At some point it must become a medium of exchange for the system to keep on working. But it doesn't make any progress in that direction.

And should it make the switch at some time in the future - why should I invest in it now? Hodling, as many do, measn that that moment is pushed far away into the future. It's a fundamental dilemma that none of the blockhain/defi pixie dust can explain or solve IMHO.

> My brain is hardwired to replace #bitcoin with money. Try it
foreign currencies (like the money you use) are a pretty decent form of investment where I live, FWIW. when local currency loses half of its value compared with foreign currencies in sudden episodes several times over one's life, and accumulates a devaluation of between 8 and 10 orders of magnitude over a single decade, investing in "money" doesn't sound such an odd idea.
fortunately most of these devaluations are in a distant past, but there's still enough fluctuation that we have investment funds linked to some foreign currencies, and people who are saving for expenses abroad are often advised to rely on such funds, or to exchange early, as a form of insurance against major devaluations
not that I invest or recommend crypto currencies as investment, mind you. it just doesn't feel weird at all for me to hear about investment in other currencies

@lxo If you are looking for more stability in a Store of Value, Bitcoin doesn't really look like a good candidate IMHO.

true, but that's a different issue. still, if even value-preserving foreign-currency (and mutual funds tracking them) are regarded as investment, why shouldn't speculation with crypto currencies? it can bring about huge returns, and also risk huge losses. sounds like high-risk investment to me. why should it not qualify?
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@lxo Because cryptocoins are not legal tender. Currencies are. The fundamentals are completely different. But still Bitcoin and other cryptocoins position themselves as currency when needed. Though they simply don't fulfill the criteria.Which becomes obvious once you replace "bitcoin" with "money" and try to find out if the sentence still makes sense - which was my point. It doesn't.

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> Because cryptocoins are not legal tender. Currencies are.

it looks like you start the thread by claiming bitcoin is not investment because it is money, and then, when I show even legal tender can be investment, you claim bitcoin is not investment because it is NOT money (legal tender)?!?
several forms of investment do not involve buying legal tender, so how does that make crypto currencies not-investment? you're coming across as self-contradictory to me

@lxo No. I never said that Bitcoin isn't investment because it is money. I explained how that way of thinking simply doesn't make sense.

well, then, nevermind my initial response to my misunderstanding that that was what you meant. but now I have no clue as to what your point was in the initial post in the thread. it seemed to be that investment in money (be it legal tender, bitcoin, whatever) doesn't make sense, thus isn't investment. where's my understanding faulty?

@lxo Using currency arbitrage to make money is quite OK and normal. I wouldn't call that investment, though. Distributing your money across different currencies might make sense in some regions/markets - but all of this happens with currencies that are legal tender. Bitcoin and other cryptocoins are thus a different category of financial vehicles IMHO. But the Cryptoworld loves to see it as money when it fits, as investment when that better fits. That doesn't make sense to me.

I think I got it, thanks. double-checking by rephrasing with my own words: you're annoyed bitcoin is sometimes presented as money, sometimes as investment, depending on whatever suits the presenter. I guess you're frustrated because that often feels dishonest, even scammy. have I got that right?

@lxo Yes, but it isn't about me. I can see through this and decide for myself it doesn't work in either way for me. That's my personal opinion. I am however worried about people that don't know all these things and think it is a wise investment decision to buy bitcoin, unaware that it's failure to be a medium of exchange or a unit of account will make any long term bets on bitcoin far too risky, again IMHO.

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