Having a solution is the smallest step. Turning it into an accepted and widely supported solution - that takes three things. Persistence, Patience and accepting to not be credited. Ideas are bigger than people. Be a catalyst, not a hero.
So please keep that in mind, the next time you plan to post a cynical comment because you think someone is a bit too enthusiastic about something. I've been going through this myself for years. People attacking me because I care about #Open in pragmatic ways.
@jwildeboer uh, love this thread!
Quite hard for the ego to accept, working hard for others, without fame or riches, but the appreciation of a select group of peers.
How to make these structures/institutions/commons which last? I feel that is somehow the spirit-of-change in 'second-wave FLOSS' and beyond.
To some extent this wave I feel looks beyond the existing community and tries to help and welcome newcomers. We need to be more than superstars. To appeal to a broader community we have to aim for the common goal of the 4 freedoms and how we can show the appeal of that beyond our bubble.
@douginamug Yes. The ego driven approach is multiplied by social networks (see the hunt for blue ticks on Twitter ;) Standing against that takes a bit of convincing yourself, but once it starts working, it feels like magic. Maybe it needs experience. Maybe it needs a mentor in some cases - it definitely doesn't come naturally.
@douginamug In FLOSS there are also other factors. I always understood FLOSS to deliver fundaments. Sustainable, basic layers.More project than product. But some try to shoehorn the FLOSS ethos into a VC driven product approach. And when investors and ROI enter the picture, egoism thrives.
@douginamug I have been protected from that part of "our" world simply by working at Red Hat since 15+ years. I learned how we look at projects out there from this world building perspective, not from a product driven, make money fast way.
@jwildeboer but isn't half of the negativity because one person thinks the other fights for the wrong thing?
Take init systems for example. The people behind systemd believe what they're doing is good - making Linux ecosystem more standardized, providing a modern replacement for an old mess of hacky scripts, and delivering new useful features.
And then there are people who believe systemd is harmful and is actually making the ecosystem worse.
Should they not criticize each other?
@wolf480pl Sure. We can and should discuss *topics*. But never people. The way the whole systemd discussion turned ad hominem was one of the lowest points I’ve ever experienced in FLOSS. The people that “criticised” systemd by attacking its developers should be ashamed of themselves.
@jwildeboer Were you meaning the way that RH screwed many ppl with the shortened CentOS 8 life?
I am still upset about that.
@technoid_ CentOS switched to a stream model. RHEL is now available for free. New clones have popped up. I am not sure how we “screwed” many people, as you claim.
@technoid_ But thanks for proving my point about negativity and cynical comments instead of support when someone tries to be positive.
@jwildeboer Sorry, I am a jaded and cynical person. Wish that wasn't the case, but I tend to look for negatives before the positives.
The CentOS 8 to CentOS 8 Stream would have been understanding if they were waiting till CentOS 9 or done this parallel to CentOS 8. I have just gotten done installing a few servers with CentOS 8 that were in production. I felt that RH had pulled the rug out on me.
Sorry to be negative and cynical. When re-reading, I see that I didn't have a place in the conversation. I have a bone to pick and was an asshole to you because of it.
Thank you for not just blocking me.
@jwildeboer The landscape has gotten better, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth. Sure a company can "fix" a problem they created, but nothing fixes the feeling that I get.
There are other companies I avoid due to past problems (ubiquiti) that I don't forget. Free RHEL seems to be a reaction to the negative press. If it had been released before, that might be seen as something other.
@technoid_ I have internally advocated for free RHEL since many years, even before we brought the CentOS team in. Persistence, patience and not caring too much about my ego helped make it real. So I don’t feel offended or attacked by you lashing out at me. I understand your frustration. And you simply cannot know all the things that happened. We’re cool. No sweat.
If you turn your head and squint a little this would seem to be the point Bogie made to Bergman at the end of Casablanca
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