So you „did your research“ on covid vaccines and decided you’re not going get vaccinated. Ok. Just answer these few questions to make sure you know what you’re talking about. I’ll wait.

I don't know the answers to any of these questions.
wouldn't the implied argument disqualify me from participating in any conversations about vaccines?

I’m good at multiple-choice, so I’ll have my go:
A; C; D; D; A; B.

1) Given / easy;
2) Feeling / hunch;
3) Exclusion (“antibody” is too generic, T-cells don’t do that, C and E felt wierd);
4) 1,2,4 are too close. 7 stands out. 10 is there just to try to make 7 not stand out (adds 3 again);
5) Finally: 2 “CD”s and a IL-x again. I’d go with any one of the three, but CD3 felt overdetailed. Not so sure about this one.

I have done no research and I’ve taken my shots because I work/study STEM and I know you don’t get to be a specialist because of your political opinions or closeness to the board of directors of a pharmaceutical company - also, no conspiracy could be so large and go unnoticed: there are many horrible things happening and people just don’t care; see Assange.

@jwildeboer I skiped the reasoning for number 5, and labled number 6 with it instead.

Here is my reasoning for my “educated” guess:

5) It seems pretty straight-forward. Sometimes, things are just like that. Other times, it can be decieving. I went with “straight-forward”.

@jwildeboer Feels more like a 1st year biology's quizz than researcher's kind of turf tho.

@otyugh @jwildeboer

I think that's rather the point. These questions are entry-level and most people who "do their own research" won't even be able to answer these.

I'm not sure if this is a really good argument (the person who responded "the quiz should be in statistics instead" has a good point) but I quite like the idea.
@jwildeboer i've read hundreds of medical papers and can't answer any of these

weird quiz

@jwildeboer do you really need to know any of that to be able to do a metaanalysis?

@wolf480pl No, you can make a purely emotional decision to not get vaccinated. But just don't claim you "did your research" in that case :)

@jwildeboer a metaanalysis is not a purely emotional decision.
It means looking at scientific studies people published, verifying their experimental methodology (population size, choice of population, how well they controlled any confounders, etc.) and aggregating the results.

It requires knowledge of statistics, and various biases that can affect the studies being aggregated.

But I don't see how knowledge of microbiology would be useful there.

@wolf480pl Sure, your absolute freedom. I honestly couldn't care less about how you reach your conclusion refuse vaccination, we need to protect the whole of our society, so, yes, I got my shots (and booster) and hope many more do too.

@jwildeboer I honestly couldn't care less about that. Thought we were discussing whether there are ways to reach an informed conclusion about effectiveness of some hypothetical vaccine without understanding microbiology, and whether these methods can be called "research".

So my question is: do you think a meta-analysis is a form of research?

Very cute. Now I've a question for you: If the vaccine is effective and safe, why has the infection rate gone up rather than down as vaccination rates increase?

@swashberry here in Germany the effect is quite obvious. There is a direct connection. Regions with more than 70% of population have lower incidences. But sure, with temperatures falling and still 30% of population not (fully) vaccinated and delta being more aggressive than previous variants, the virus still finds more victims.

That's certainly compelling, but unfortunately it doesn't gel with data which correlates spikes in infection rates with vaccination and boosters. Unfortunately I couldn't find the chart which shows this, but I did find this one which compares fatalities reported in relation to various vaccines, since we're talking about doing our own research. The numbers here are low compared to the total vaccinated population, yes, but do show that pushing it through without full trials was unwise.

The reported efficacy of the vaccines themselves get lower and lower with every study that's been done, and all of the side-effects that we were told were merely the ramblings of conspiracy theorists have since been reported as fact by those same trials. Vaccines with lower reports of complications are still not available in my country, pending further trials, despite Health Canada applying autoimmune and blood clot warnings to the available Astrazenca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.

Bear in mind that evidence has been found to suggest that COVID-19 was present in Italy as far back as March of 2019 and no one heard a word about a mystery super-flu until the announcement by China in November. The rate of survival for people in my age group is over 99.9% and for my parents it's 99.5%, and that's according to every available study I've found from every reputable source. Under those conditions, I'm unpersuaded by accusations of scientific illiteracy.

Yes. The polio vaccine has demonstrated overwhelming efficacy. The COVID-19 vaccine has not. That's really irrelevant, though, because most polio vaccinations occur during childhood, when you have very little say in what medical treatments you may receive. Your attempt to catch me in a hypocrisy didn't take the relevant factors into account.

@swashberry as I’ve said. I honestly don’t care about what reasons you find for yourself to refuse to do the right thing. I do care that people like you are bringing our hospitals to max capacity and causing planned treatments for other patients to be postponed and/or cancelled.

You don't care what peoples' reasoning is, but you post childish memes about why you think their reasoning is wrong. Even if their reasoning is the demonstrated ineffectiveness of the vaccine and the number of people the vaccine is putting in the hospital.

You don't care about the people in the hospital, sir. You care about conformity.

@swashberry I’ve just lost my aunt this way. She had to die at home as the risk of getting infected with covid on top of her existing illness was deemed to be too high, should she have been placed in the hospital. So please, keep your insinuations about my motivation to yourself. You’re wrong. Again.

How appropriate. You won't consider lobbying your government for more effective vaccines, probably because you know they won't listen. The absolute state of democracy in the 21st century has rendered states which care more about pushing vaccines that make money rather than allowing competition.

So all you can do is block the dissenters. But you haven't made them go. You've just made them invisible.

Best of luck, comrade.

@jwildeboer Just ask them what the major components of a scientific paper is. Guarantee they don't know.

Sign in to participate in the conversation

Mastodon instance for people with Wildeboer as their last name