Germany is burning the gas we need for the winter to generate electricity that gets exported to France where half of their nuclear capacity is offline due to damages and heatwave. How ... weird. Nuclear fans, please explain.

According to the report, 12 reactors in France are currently offline due to *unexpected* damages like cracks in pipes etc (the purple ones, red are offline due to planned maintenance). These damages might also be found in other reactors.

@jwildeboer what does yellow mean? seems like a weird choice for active reactors.

@bunny_riot @jwildeboer because nuclear power never was and never will be green?

@bunny_riot Black/yellow is the standard color of radioactivity warning signs? And of all the problems described, you chose the color to worry about? ;)

insufficient maintenance or they were not designed to work in extreme temperatures. London has a break down with its rail network because of the heat. (and Luton airport runway has melted too) One can blame the rails or airports,but that is not the problem.

@benni Yes, but the few gas generators are right now running on full power, eating quite significantly into the scarce capacity.

@jwildeboer et quand c'est la France qui exporte son électricité nucléaire en Allemagne (situation courante de ces 20 dernières années) pour pallier au manque de vent ou de soleil, vous dites quoi ?

L'Allemagne a fait le choix de continuer le charbon et le gaz, 2 combustibles fossiles désastreux pour le climat.

@InsoumisCbv It's called European solidarity, I hope. When France has electricity to share in the winter, I hope they deliver it to Germany just as Germany is right now helping France.

@jwildeboer oui, c'est le concept de réseau électrique intégré.
Il n'est d'ailleurs pas stricto sensu européen car inclu la Suisse et la Turquie par exemple.
Les modes de production électrique de quasi tous les pays sont criticables pour leurs impacts écologiques, leur fragilités ou leur caractère ultra spécifique et non généralisable.

@InsoumisCbv But you do agree that this currently is a rather untypical situation, I hope. Usually, at this time of the year, France is a net exporter of electricity. This year it isn't. And one of the main reasons is the nuclear capacity is far below normal compared to other years.

We pay the underinvestment in maintenance for years. The State plans to take parts in EDF to take in charge with public money the cost of the catch up.

@jwildeboer @InsoumisCbv

Would you take this electricity then?

I mean In winter we most likely will get Nuclear energy produced electricity and since it seems you are no fan of nuclear you will stay cold this winter?

@Zoidtes @InsoumisCbv My house unfortunately gets its warm water and heating from gas. So French nuclear electricity wouldn't help. Keeping our gas supply filled would be more helpful. Will France help Germany with that the way we do now?

@Zoidtes @InsoumisCbv My electricity at home comes under a 100% renewable contract. If my electricity provider cannot keep that promise and mixes in French nuclear electricity, that would be annoying but for me not a dealbreaker. Things are complicated now and in the next few months at least.

@jwildeboer @InsoumisCbv

So your rant against "Nuclear fans" is only as half as ranty because you already said that its not a deal breaker for you.

@Zoidtes If you are looking for a fight - I am not interested. I shared my arguments. I explained my pragmatism and I still am happy that Germany will switch off the last 3 nuclear plants next year. I have no problem with that.

@jwildeboer I don't know what you read but there is nothing written about a fight, that's your interpretation.

However it's okay that you don't have a problem that Germany shuts those nuclear plants down. But this country contains many other people that don't have "gas" as an option and since its imports t for me to reach as many people as possible, turning off nuclear is no option for me.

@jwildeboer @InsoumisCbv
You are asking a solidary qusteion instead of directly going to the Nuclear topic.

if you ask me like this, I can pretty much tell you 2 realities:

1: France most likely helps Germany, we are in new times with new problems, but it will have its price.
And the price is important, because this will also regulate the usage. I can promise you that it will be expensive.

2: This is how united we are:
" Spain, Portugal reject EU's proposal to limit natural gas use by 15%"

@meduz @jwildeboer @InsoumisCbv

It shows the reality of Europe in every bodies face, even those that only think about themselves. And I hope this causes a turn in every European citizens head. We cant continue like that.

Europe is lesser a union as it has ever been.
By all honesty, for me, I never felt a union. Results like those are actually plain to expect.

As long as Europe is not united, there wont be anything that we can call as a European "Union".

Fossil fuels are bad and nuclear is better.

Everything else you mentioned seems irrelevant as to whether one should be in favour of nuclear energy or not.

@BourgouiseLiberal Never let facts cloud your prejudices ;) France is failing to satisfy its own electricity demand and one of the reasons is that nuclear power generation is far below planned level, due to various reasons.

Oh noooooo~
nuclear has prevented the burning of enormous amounts of fossil fuels, and now it is putting out less than expected and we have to...
> checks notes
do a little bit of what we would have done had we never tried nuclear.
and go back up to the expected amount later.

Oh the humanity.

@BourgouiseLiberal @jwildeboer

nuclear is as bad as fossil fuel + carbon capture in blocking investments in renewable energy, but with additional risks.

I believe there is a strong incentive to make nuclear scarier than it actually is by fossil fuel companies, so i won't take a random image as proof that it is and always will be worse than fossil fuels.

Especially considering the fact that most nuclear powerplants don't use the greenest blueprint, but the cheapest (afaik).
(Also, i think you're reading the chart wrong)

@jwildeboer And we don't need to worry about gas/oil, Russia sell it's oil to Saudia and some other oil producing countries, so they can sell to europe more oil at more expansive price. And coming with more polluting means (giant boats with more oil spill risks)
@jwildeboer Also Macon passed a decree that allow to reject more hot water in river, above the limit that will cause damage to life of the rivers. So we can still have lot of energy to play to fps, don't stop computers by night, look stupid hollywood films in 4K and have lot of giant LCD panels with advertisement for last SUV or ocean liner tourism in our streets :(.

@jwildeboer France is almost neutral if you count export-import. The biggest part of German energy goes (via Swiss and France) to North Italy. See


What is "The Gas" ? Which gas? The Gas Germany has bought very expensively from Russia?

Which is worse here? It seems that its more than fine to buy Russian Gas than going or staying nuclear.

Also the comparison with old and bridle reactors is odd. As a nuclear fan, I hope France will finally maintain/shuts down reactors and builds more new reactors that are less bridle than those we have today.

Ah you forgot to mention the green alternative of Hydro power, please explain.

@Zoidtes @jwildeboer in my humble opinion it does not make sense to build new reactors:
- too expensive; investments in nuclear block investments in renewables
- co2 savings effect too far in the future
- too centralized, too big attack vector
- risk and nuclear waste disposal problem unresolved - no cradle2cradle possible

so it works out so great for germany that they now can burn the trees from a whole forest that they cut for a wind turbine farm in their
in their coal power stations.
it just works.

please convince me. how is destroying a forest green.
and how is reactivating coal power plants a sign that green power is superior as well as having the the third highest energy prices world wide. (Bermuda islands is highest)


I'm not a nuclear fan, but the answer is liberalism (or, as Emmanuel Todd aptly described Macronistos, "Colbertists on LSD who make believe they are liberals").

@jwildeboer yet even with that France is able to produce electricity with carbon intensity ~100g/kWh while Germany needs 300g after years of green shift and billions invested.
BTW our nuclear plants are at 85% of their production capacity even in the heat waves, nuclear plants in other countries are doing similar. Seems like something particularly wrong with French plants. AFAIK they have had problems for almost a year due to underfunded maintenance.

@jwildeboer Yes, that's the years of underfunded maintenance having its impact now. Still I'm glad for every nuclear plant France is managing to run. If they'd decided to decomission them and relied on gas instead, Europe would be royally fucked now.

@sesivany right now they are relying on Russian gas, burned in Germany ;) And renewables from Germany. That’s the actual point …

And if Germany hadn't decommisioned their nuclear plants they would be now relying on German nuclear.
BTW they currently produce 25 GW from nuclear and import 2.8 GW from Germany. If that's what's called relying on Russian gas I wish every country in EU relied on Russian gas like that. 😉

@jwildeboer Actually looking at the data more closely while exporting power to France, German is importing roughly the same amount of power from Denmark, Norway, and Sweden which are net exporters, so it's more accurate to say that France is now relying on Scandinavian renewables rather than Russian gas.

@sesivany net import/export between Germany and France, first 6 months of 2021 and 2022 compared. I’d say it’s quite a relevant change.

@jwildeboer still don't understand the ultimate point you're trying to make. Yes, France is producing from nuclear less than normally now, yet they still have much smaller carbon footprint and dependency on Russia than Germany and Germany is not really saving them except for being a transfer country for power surplus in the north.
What could France do better? Decomission the plants and rely on coal and gas much more than now?

@sesivany @jwildeboer
Dears , one of the point might be .. That nuclear power AS it is . is no solution. The amount of uranium is restricted and comes Form where ? At the time . to build PV vor Wind Parks is much More cheap.
So if fission authority doesn't geht to make nuclear Fusion .. Built of Nuclear power plants makes no sense at All.
We need More #storage and maybe some #p2x

@aiquez @jwildeboer well, one thing is building new nuclear plants, another is decommissioning already functioning. We're years from being able to rely completely on renewables. Once we're, by all means let's decomission all nuclear plants. I will have no problem with that. But until then every ton of CO2 released to the atmosphere counts and France has been emitting much less of it even with their poorly maintained plants.

@sesivany @jwildeboer
OK you can See how long you can let them run . but be aware uranium comes also Form russia .. And env. cost to gain it.
for what you use the money. For nuclear or renewables.

Fault of german politics- too slow and too corporate fixed.
And not built further solar and storage capacities. #cdu #fdp and even #spd .
I was 15 years ago in meeting where they asked how quick to build RN.
... I'd say AS fast AS possible.#dontwasteresources

@aiquez @jwildeboer not all uranium is coming from Russia (even Europe itself has enough deposits, just no current know-how to make fissile material), the adventage over fossils is that you can stock up for years. We were buying the fissile material from Russia, but we have enough of it for operation for the next 3 years and we've already signed a contract with the US for supplies from 2024. So no crisis like with gas.

@sesivany @jwildeboer
Enough deposits for how long ????

I got doubts .Anyway, you need to ASK where you store the garbage.

Restructuring energy systems . Like smart grids would be favourable.

Less worldwide Transport of all the cheap stuff. We need More tax based incentives for the future tech ... Also in house building , agriculture .. Corporate GM is crap and lets people suffer. German comp sell in EU forbidden chemicals to south america to grow soy

@sesivany @jwildeboer What about more solar and wind energy instead of fossil or nuclear fuels?

@hackbyte @jwildeboer I'm all for it, but until we achieve full reliability on renewables, let's keeping using already existing nuclear plants instead of burning coal and gas. The difference between the two (on examples of France and Germany) is quite telling in terms of carbon footprint.

@sesivany Please read again. My main focus still is that Germany is burning gas for electricity. Gas we will soon need for more important things. That France is failing to deliver nuclear electricity is one of the reasons. But not my main point.

@jwildeboer ok, point taken.
BTW our gas plants are currently running at 75% of their capacity and since we're a net exporter it's all being exported and we're a country with the highest dependency on Russian gas (95%), so potencially in the biggest trouble. I don't quite understand that from our national security point of view.

@sesivany I guess the reason is quite simple. Prices are high, lots of money to be made :(

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