@jwildeboer a wasted article.

They cost you a lot more as they age, as their worth becomes basically nothing.

@swansinflight cars with ICUs aren’t different in that regard. Actually they lose value even faster.

@jwildeboer yeah but don't fall off a cliff with battery aging/cycling out.

I mean, I agree internal combustion engines days are numbered, but electric vehicles as we have them now aren't anything more than a stepping stone. Definitely not a long term solution.

@swansinflight Agreed. I don’t own a car anymore. I can do my daily business with a bicycle, electric scooter. And a rental car 2-4 times a year. Owning a car just stopped making sense to me.

@jwildeboer @swansinflight I’d love to get to this point, I hate everything about cars. Unfortunately I live in a small town where we don’t even have a decent local transit, let alone a location to get mass transit out of town.

@swansinflight @jwildeboer Well .. it will basically stay electric... The bigger problem is that we need to get rid of our actual car culture....

@swansinflight @jwildeboer I drive a VW e-Golf I bought new in Nov 2015. Cheapest-to-own per kilometer vehicle I've ever owned (previous vehicles Honda Civic 2, Subaru sedan, Honda Civic 1, Toyota Tercel back in 1989).

It's not even close.

I drive cars until an expensive mechanical repair makes them uneconomical, which for the petrol cars has been about 175,000km. I have 120,000km on the e-Golf, and I anticipate getting it to at least 175,000km before the battery would fail.

@swansinflight @jwildeboer Uh? They cost you a lot less when they age..

Even the battery can be sold of separately when you sell your old car..

And you actually don't need to sell it because it's probably still good with a fresh battery and maybe a fresh drivetrain......

So .... i don't get you..

@hackbyte @jwildeboer they won't recycle lithium batteries yet as its not cost effective, and a new one is 10-20k. When a car is worth 5k who will bother. There are already fields of electric cars parked up (in France I think? I'd have to check).
Current solutions aren't a solution. They're a stop gap.

@swansinflight They won't recycle those batteries _yet_ because they are readily usable as powerwalls..

So it actually doesn't makes sense to put more energy in them to dismantle, tear down, shred and recycle them, at this point in time..

@hackbyte ok, that's fair and a good use. You missed the rest of my post where those buying an old EV won't be able to afford to replace the battery anyway however.

@swansinflight Yeah that is another problem.... But we actually already had solutions for that.

One possible variant is changeable batteries, which gives you the additional benefit of nearly killing charging times completely when you just can get a freshly charged battery at the changing station... In this case, you don't actually need to buy a full battery at all but you just rent it and pay for the used charge... There are several models possible starting from state owned batteries down to a co op owning the system and so on..

Another variant could be the nations stopping to put subsidys into old ICE manufacturers and infrastructure and put that to use to enable ppl to afford a battery.

And the very next variant is, smaller batteries.. Do you really _always_ need the full range of your tank? O.k. it's nice to have but, besides that, how many kilometer/miles do you drive between the times when your car is just sitting around doing nothing? ;)

Uhm.... yeah things will get harder ... for sure .. but that is the case if we stay with ICE technology too ... and the latter will hurt us way more sadly.
@swansinflight Btw about the recycling ... it's truly insane in some way... We already have the technology to recycle Li-* based batteries to a very good degree (between 80 and 95% recovery rate iirc), possibly even better rates in future.. But nobody has the money or cares about to actually scale up the technology for mass production/recycling because... Well, there just isn't enough material yet.... Even after 10 years of usage in a EV, those batteries really are still good for another 10 years as local (stationary) energy storage.. It's a win-win as of now. ;)
Sign in to participate in the conversation
social.wildeboer.net

Mastodon instance for people with Wildeboer as their last name