@CyReVolt @jwildeboer @mxmehl Yea but.. software is also not only for people who know and use git. Documentation isn't really document-ey if your actual users can't access it because they don't know git.
Also, as a software developer, I detest email passionately and would rather switch careers than have to use email to organise anything.
@cathal @CyReVolt @jwildeboer Quite the opposite. When I started using Gogs, the main dev was quite unresponsive and annoying bugs have not been solved. Gitea is a community fork, they introduced a lot of great features meanwhile, and they are very open to outside contributions. But obviously, they operate on a much lower budget.
So feel free to sponsor them on opencollective. They are 100% #FreeSoftware and deserve our support
@mxmehl @CyReVolt @jwildeboer Oh I didn't mean they were neglectful. Just that they inherited a huge community from Gogs, and I don't know if they have enough active devs to keep up with the interest.
I self hosted for a while and need to boot that server back up. And contrib'ing on OC is a solid suggestion.
I know some Go also, should see about contributing code if possible..
@cathal @CyReVolt @jwildeboer As far as I can tell they are a very diverse team, there is no benevolent dictator, and I noticed that since its foundation a lot of new very active devs have joined, and not many have left.
Look at the number of different authors of pull requests for instance: https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/pulls
@patrick @jwildeboer @mxmehl @CyReVolt But how do they contribute to docs, translations, etcetera? That's why Wikis are such a nice feature of Gitlab, and such a shame to lose.
We should always be pushing to make software development more inclusive to non-devs, it's the only way we end up making more things relevant to non devs. Crucial for accessibility, too.
@cathal @patrick @jwildeboer @CyReVolt I'm not sure whether you implied that, but #Gitea has wikis as well. They offer basically everything an average developer needs. So it's like Mastodon in comparison to Twitter, except that the users on different instances cannot easily connect and contribute comments or PRs.
#Federation would be a huge boost for Gitea (and other software supporting such a standard) and break the network effect that benefits Github and Gitlab.
@cathal @patrick @jwildeboer @mxmehl We actually dropped the Wiki and switched to sphinx for the docs in coreboot. I'd like to oppose the idea that "git is only for devs"; many documentation contributions come to projects from non-devs via git. That's actually what many projects even recommend for first-time contributers. :)
Also, nothing keeps you from hosting a wiki independently. It's another way of decentralization, decoupling infra.
First of all, the complexity of the tool defines the threshold new users have to take to contribute. Git is quite complex for inexperienced users, they have to read a lot of documentation first. We had to make the experience in the FSFE that you can lose valuable contributors by that.
On the other hand, #Gitea but also Github offer editing files/creating PRs via the web interface only. Branch names ("patch-1") are not really helpful then, but it works
@mxmehl @patrick @CyReVolt @jwildeboer More informative patch names could probably be fixed with a PR to add a "describe your edit" box, like Wikipedia does.
I agree by the way, I know far more people who will never contribute of it requires a terminal, than I know people who will. And making things elitist by saying "you must be this techie to contribute".. well, you do you. But I think it's a regression in culture-not progress.
@CyReVolt @mxmehl @patrick @jwildeboer He fact that even professional devs have to keep checking stack overflow to figure out how to fix git borks suggests things are not so straightforward even when the terminal is elided.
It's not FUD to say "professional tools built for software development are designed with professional software developers in mind".
@CyReVolt @patrick @jwildeboer I agree to @cathal. At the FSFE, we manage our website with Git and ask voluntary translators to contribute their work through it. Although we invested a lot of time in documentation, it's a burden for many to contribute.
Git is an awesome tool, and I wouldn't want to miss it, but if you're not used to Git it can drive you crazy. The whole idea and concept is genius, but very unintuitive for many people. If you made diverging experiences, feel blessed :)
@jwildeboer amazing isn't it? We are meant to believe that with all their expertise, they couldn't code their own telemetry collection, and also that they care about our privacy, but you aren't allowed to turn this (totally innocent, not selling your data at all folks!) option off.
They said though that if you have DNT enabled in your browser this would prevent telemetry snippets from loading.
@jwildeboer If you're using their "proprietary services", you're not using Free Software.
If they did this to their free-of-charge users, that would be a different issue.
@yojimbo AFAICS they’re doing it to all gitlab.com users. Only when you run your own instance without support you are exempted. Am I wrong?
@jwildeboer I think you're correct.
I see external third-party trackers in their public non-logged-in page right now, pointing to Marketo, Google Analytics, Cookiebot, Bizible as well as the 'normal' but still uncool swifttype, fontawesome, cloudflare.
Mind you, they could self-host all the endpoints, and no-one would be sure that's what they were doing. So doing it openly is at least a little less scummy.
@yojimbo blocking API access until you’ve accepted the new terms with no opt-out possible however is kinda scummy IMHO.
@jwildeboer So… don't use EE - it's a company and has always been. There is gitlab-ce (or FOSS). This is OS.
@jwildeboer Meh - others were faster, of course
…and once again: self hosted won. It's worth the hassle. Every gorram time.
@jwildeboer never fooled me, all I needed was to understand they follow the proprietary relicensing method of business...
@jwildeboer this is quite sad. On the bright side running omnibus community education is super easy and then you can keep control. Thank you so much for sharing.
I thought Gitlab was open-source?!?
And I just setup everything on Gitlab...
Guess I'll be looking at Gitea or another alternative.
@jwildeboer If you read the whole email, that only happens on installarions they have to support. Gitlab.com and EE installs.
If you go the actual open source route and install CE on your owm server these script are not there.
@Routhinator The affected users are those that use gitlab.com and in the near future those that use the gitlab Enterprise Edition. So AFAICS all paying users/customers of gitlab. Am I wrong?
Mastodon instance for people with Wildeboer as their last name