@jwildeboer thank you! This is an amazing initiative. Honestly I will not take the vaccine simply because moral reasons (and we can talk about it), but still I would like to ask from a medical point of view, can you give me a cost benefit analysis for a 35 years old healthy individual of taking the vaccines?
Again great initiative. We should be able to talk about this in a civilised manner.
Many many thanks (I cannot stress it enough to)
@jwildeboer and I value my own health ahead of others (spreader context, not a total sociopath). I wear masks and social distance. 35yrs.
@ldexterldesign Why did you (your parents) think it is probably a good idea to get vaccinated against those diseases? At that time, people had similar discussions. Measles isn't that bad for most people, getting Polio is a low risk thing - but still, people got vaccinated. Why is this one different to you?
@jwildeboer weird argument, my parents were responsible for those injections not me. I was probably about 5 years old.
@jwildeboer measles vaccine was first introduced in 1963. I was born in 1985, so it already had over 20 years of use before I had it. Unlike COVID vaccine.
@ldexterldesign so your main argument is that while we know not a lot about long term effects/risks of COVID, but do know a lot about vector vaccines (AstraZeneca), you prefer to not get vaccinated?
@jwildeboer my main argument is I’m healthy based on evidence and most people aren’t healthy. Most people who die have a chronic illness which subdues their immune system. Also old people have suppressed immune systems.
@jwildeboer @louiscouture well smoking is the least healthy thing a person can do, alcohol is next. My father has fatty liver right now and that’s caused by high sugar/carb. Alcohol manufacturers can put what they like in beer because there’s no fact label; hence why home brewing and craft beer has taken off. Fatty liver yields insulin resistance which is a huge unknown in society. If people are already inflamed and get #COVID then it’s life threatening in my book.
@jwildeboer sugar is a drug. I don’t need to tell you how many people are addicted to it. Smokers usually have blood sugar issues. They drink alcoholic to remedy it. Alcohol is sugar.
@ldexterldesign so you are accusing two dead friends of mine of being drug addicts to make yourself feel good about refusing to get vaccinated?
@ldexterldesign the way I see it, you have a serious problem with showing empathy towards others and this for me explains your refusal to enter a real discussion. That’s not my problem. I wish you a wonderful day.
@jwildeboer LOL. I never got personal with you or your "friends" (I didn't even know they were your friends!). I think you're the one with empathy issues mate. I thought you were a virtue signaller piece of sh#t from your original post and I'm correct. YOU have a wonderful day.
@ldexterldesign ah, projection. The age old problem of accusing others for your own mistakes. Added to my blocklist.
Appreciate your attitude. :-)
Could you also mention how you came to know about the vaccine info for the people who don't know you?
@jwildeboer if you don't mind, discuss publicly, so the crowd can read along. Staying in DMs would hide both side's arguments.
@dontoverthinklife I will happily discuss also in public. But I am also open for private communication for people who don’t want to discuss in public.
@jwildeboer Try to convince me then. I am not willing to partake in an experiment of a type of therapy that has never before been tried on humans, especially not at large scale, with a rushed trial cycle, and where scientists and medical doctors that are calling for caution are silenced.
I might have considered it if the death rates were 10% or more, but with 99+% of survival rate, I think the virus (known as government) has caused mass psychosis and idiocy rather than a respiratory disease.
@niclas you can take the AstraZeneca or Johnson&Johnson vaccine, which are both classic vector vaccines, not mRNA.
@jwildeboer Not where I live, Pfizer only.
But if https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/health/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine.html is describing "classic vector vaccines", then I am not taking any of those either.
All I read is that DNA is used instead of RNA to produce the spike proteins. Still a gene therapy.
My main concern is that the spike protein is not good for the body in general, for instance latching on to the capillary walls and introduce drag and slower blood flow.
@clacke @jwildeboer First of all, corona is not a new virus, some "colds" are corona in action.
And I'll take my chances with the natural occurrence of spike proteins on the virus shell, rather than fabricated mechanisms of "free-floating" proteins that (IIUIC) attaches itself to other cells, with the intent of triggering the immune response.
When Robert Malone (https://news.yahoo.com/single-most-qualified-mrna-expert-173600060.html) is seemingly being scrubbed from all kinds of places (such as YT and Wikipedia) and ignored, get suspicous.
@clacke Personally, I prefer the mRNA vaccines, but the viruses used for vector vaccines are replication-deficient.
They can enter cells, but before a virus replicates many more steps need to be made.
It is possible due to manufacturing mistakes to have viruses that can replicate in immunocompromised people. But they test for that and that should be no problem for the people who feel so invincible that they are sure Covid will not harm them.
"My main concern is that the spike protein is not good for the body in general"
You know what else contains spike proteins and ain't good for the body in general? The Corona virus. And guess what increases your chance of that one uncontrollably self-multiplying inside your body? Not getting vaccinated.
@jwildeboer Furthermore, IF (yes, a big if and I hope not) there are long-term issues with this type of therapy, it is not like you can remove this "vaccine" from your body later. I rather take my chances with nature rather than with the same people that are suggested to have caused this in the first place (leak of gain of function research).
@niclas You cannot remove the "vaccine" later because your body already removed it after a few days.
mRNA is continually produced by your genome and broken down after it was used to create proteins. Your immune system will remove the cells that were affected.
There are no examples in history where a long-term vaccine side effect did not start within a few weeks of the vaccination.
We have over 4 million examples of people dying from Covid and many times more getting really ill.
@jwildeboer I feel that we shouldn't be in too much of a hurry to get jabs of medicine made by the same people who do stuff like this:
Pharma giants are for-profit. Their aim is money, not social service.
And if it's more cost effective for them to pay the fine than to make misleading claims about their products, they would dot it.
There are too many similar examples. I don't trust pharma giants.
Here's a recent example. This time by J&J:
@unpopop Questions about the vaccine and how they work - happy to give you information. Discussions about the evilness of big Pharma - not my thing.
@unpopop in my original post is says that I will *try* to answer your questions and that you can send them as direct message. You however chose to post a *public* rant about Big Pharma with no real question behind it and now blame me for not helping you. I apologise for my obvious resistance to go in that conspiracy shithole.
A blame-game isn't what I was after. Sorry if you felt that I initated one.
Anyway this isn't the kind of discussion that I sought.
And I think the discussion would be better made in public rather than in DMs for the same reason that @dontoverthinklife mentioned in a reply to your original post:
'Staying in DMs would hide both side's arguments'.
@jwildeboer @unpopop ...mistrust against the industrial pharmaceutical complex is a valid point from an objective standpoint. Just let your arguments speak instead of shutting down. And I mean, wasn't it predictable that someone will confront you with things you disagree when coming to the table with such a hot topic?
Mastodon instance for people with Wildeboer as their last name